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The Hollow Crown: Richard II review thing

...Or bullet points, ahem. <<



Things I liked

-Henry. I mean, I am quite odd and ALWAYS like Henry (he gets to me with his stupid guilt and his reaction to all the rebellions and the horrid way everything ended and AHEM FEELINGS) but I really, really liked this Henry. The whole way he was sort of provoked into taking the crown and then really started to regret it afterwards and... Yes, I just loved what Kinnear did. (Though I usually like what Kinnear does, I need to watch more with him in)
-Aumerle... Well, apart from the ending (but that's more a "things I did not like" point). Aumerle also gave me proper FEELINGS in this, with his stupid innocent face and the way he kept shooting glances at his father. He also gave me proper threesome feelings. Which, considering that I ship Aumerle/Henry/Richard with the burning passion of a thousand suns, IS NOT A BAD THING!
-The queen. I was a bit dubious about her at the start, but then it came to the part where she had actual lines and I warmed very rapidly. She was wonderfully strong, and snappy, and I expected her to slap a few people across the head at times.
-John of Gaunt, and his relationship with Henry. I really liked the way that... They weren't quite comfortable with each other. Like Henry was desperately seeking his approval and John was rather bad at actually GIVING it.
-York. York I LOVED HOW STRONG YOU WERE.
-The shipping. Specifically: Richard/Henry GOOLD YOU SHIP IT. I mean: so much eyesexing, and standing close together, and talking in whispers, and provoking each other, and making everybody else uncomfortable, and powerplay, and homoerotic grasping of swords while Mowbray looked oblivious, and random groping, and John of Gaunt's sudden "are my nephew and son having an affair OH GOD WHY DIDN'T I PAY MORE ATTENTION" face, and crying over each other, and honest sadness, and AN ACTUAL KISS (hush, the forehead counts) and... I am probably forgetting things, THAT IS HOW MUCH GOOLD SHIPPED IT!

Things I felt odd about

-The scenery shots made me frown a bit at the beginning (I kept feeling like I should know what the pig meant), but they largely faded away later so I suppose it wasn't that big a thing.
-They cut out a fair few scenes at the beginning, I think. On reflection they probably weren't TOO important, but seeing the Jacobi version first made me expect them and then blink when they weren't there.
--On that note: I missed the Henry/Aumerle BYE BRO conversation, especially since Goold seemed to ship Henry/Aumerle almost as much as Henry/Richard.

Things I did not like

-Aumerle's ending. WHAT NO HE DID NOT SHOOT RICHARD WHAT NO WHY WHO DO YOU THINK YORK IN HENRY V IS, GOOLD?
-RICHARD YOU ARE NOT JESUS! Or any such saint. Stop those shennanigans right now, you do not actually have to wear a loincloth in a cave.
--(The constant Jesus allusions made me frown a lot, actually, because the production did not need them and they really didn't change anything. They just jolted me out of perfectly good scenes.)



...And there's probably more that I've forgotten BUT YES. Overall I quite liked it, apart from (obviously) the "things I did not like" which really made me frown at times. It wasn't as good as the Jacobi version, no, but then I liked the Jacobi version to a creepy degree so that's not really a criticism in any way. And it was really shippy. So, er, yes - yay I liked it! (And next week looks good too!)

And tomorrow I'm going to creep around the Globe and watch their version of Henry V. Which shall, hopefully, be an awful lot of fun. ^^

(Also I haven't posted here for ages, oops. << A big update post is coming AT SOME POINT, but IIIIII'm not sure when that point will be. I have a twitter, though! (@Shagrippina) And a tumblr (LarryCromwell, at the moment) so feel free to follow me there for more regular "stupid thoughts of Dorey/Siobhan." I've also got a lot of fic over at DoreyG on AO3 if you're interested in that sort of thing (possibly, maybe, *crawls under a table*). AND I WILL ACTUALLY UPDATE THIS SOON, OOPS. KJSHDFWDFW! >>)

Comments

( 13 comments — Leave a comment )
angevin2
Jul. 4th, 2012 01:46 am (UTC)
So I friended you the other day because a) I totally should have done after yuletide, and b) you write RII fic! I also write RII fic! We should therefore be friends!

I am also working on a probably way-too-long post about why the religious stuff didn't actually bother me even though I thought it would. So that would be fun.

(p.s. I totally want to write Richard/Henry/Aumerle now, except I don't think I can pull it off in canon!period, annd I already wrote it in AU!)
doreyg
Jul. 4th, 2012 05:31 am (UTC)
I APPROVE OF THIS REASONING! :DDD But, seriously, I have fangirled your fic for ages and yet never got beyond reading it and vaguely flailing. So, yes - this should totally be fixed! With the help of Richard II! (Which, let's face it, is one of the BEST ways of fixing things (even if everybody is a bit not good at fixing things in canon, Erm.))

I think I just get a bit shifty about lots of religious imagery in whatever I'm watching, I'm not quite sure why considering that I do actually have a vague belief in such things and have done Philosophy at a-level (actually: it's the Philosophy. I need a few more years before I stop twitching around long theories about religion/clocks. <<) I also may or may not have got a bit distracted contemplating how rubbish a demon Henry would be, ahem. <<

(I think I remember reading that! (Though my computer was (and is, possibly) going through a fashionably broken stage at the time so I need to search it out again) And Henry/Aumerle/Richard is my not so secret weakness so OF COURSE I LOVED IT. :DDD And in canon I'm pretty sure that it could be nothing but eternal heartbreak and bad choices and Aumerle banging his head against a wall in a despairing way... In AU I oddly want a high school/secondary school fic where Richard is a bitchy teenager and Henry and him keep going "PLEASE TELL RICHARD/HENRY THST I'M NOT TALKING TO HIM AND ALSO THAT MOUSTACHE LOOKS HIDEOUS AND I TOTALLY /AM/ RIGHT ABOUT THE SCHOOL COUNCIL!" and poor Aumerle is permanently going whyyyyy and I MAY HAVE PUT TOO MUCH THOUGHT INTOTHIS, YES. <<)

angevin2
Jul. 4th, 2012 06:02 am (UTC)
OMG YAY I CAN HAS FANGIRLING. <3 I need to write more fic because I haven't posted one in ages, but I'm not teaching this summer so I can. (Actually I have an enormous AU fic in the works in which Richard is a girl.)

ALSO my nine-billion-word Hollow Crown post is now up! The short version of the religious stuff is that it's complicated by the juxtaposition with art and eroticism, and also the camera's viewpoint in this production is fairly clearly not always objective so I don't think we're required to read St. Sebastian + Jesus = Richard as the One True Interpretation/Moral of the Story, but I may well be talking out of my ass. I do sympathize, because I have been on a break with Catholicism for a while for reasons that can probably best be explained by the "setting the word itself against the word" passage in the Pomfret speech. Speaking of religion and clocks.

There should totally be more Richard/Henry/Aumerle in the world. Or at least I should write the Henry/Aumerle-that's-actually-about-Richard triangulation fic I've had in my head for basically forever. (Fun fact: in the girl!Richard AU there is some Henry/Robert de Vere, because apparently I totally ship Henry/All Richard's Boyfriends Ever.)
angevin2
Jul. 4th, 2012 06:03 am (UTC)
P.S. Your high school AU idea also reminds me of a comment fic that a friend wrote for me (and then DID NOT FINISH *wails*) in which Richard and Henry and all the rest of that consorted crew are Hogwarts students. It was a thing of great glory.
doreyg
Jul. 4th, 2012 07:10 am (UTC)
YAY FANGIRLING! :DDD (And addidjddufj that sounds SO good. A female Richard would be absolutely fascinating - what with the slightly different relationships and pressures and justifications for the deposition and maybe Anne of Bohemia showing up because YAY LESBIANS! <)

Ooooh, that's a very good point! I think a lot of it, possibly, is shot from Richard's view so maybe we're not supposed to take it as EVERYBODY THINKS RICHARD IS JESUS~. I mean: I definitely remember at least one scene (the HENRY I KNOW YOU ARE THERE SO LOOK ANGELS MADE PUT OF CARDBOARD scene) where the other characters looked actively creeped out by the whole Jesus/religion thing. (Henry's face, in particular, said a thousand words. XDD)

There should! AND THERE SHOULD ALSO BE THAT! :DDDD Because I do ship Henry/Aumerle but IT IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE ALL ABOUT RICHARD NO MATTER HOW HARD THEY TRY TO AVOID IT! And I really, really want fic where they're both pretending the other is Ricjard and they both know it. (And :DDDD I BET HENRY IS VERY ADAMANT THAT IT MEANS NOTHING AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RICHARD NOPE!)

Also: jffjgiggikv hogwarts AU. <3333 What house was Henry, by the way? BECAUSE I CAN NEVER SORT HIM! I've got the historical version down as vaguely a Ravenclaw, but the play version is obviously a bit different - and could fit into all the houses with creepy and unfair ease.
angevin2
Jul. 4th, 2012 07:20 am (UTC)
Oh, Anne of Bohemia is definitely in the girl!Richard fic. I already wrote the Adorable Teenage Medieval Lesbians sexy bit. I even came up with a reasonable excuse for her to come to England, and it is a super-awkward one (the best kind) because girl!Richard is negotiating a marriage to her brother Sigismund (the future emperor). Of course, she doesn't really mean to marry him, it's just to keep the King of France (who is her age and single) out of her hair.

Oh, and Gaunt is going to start a war. Because of course he is. (God, everyone who reads this fic who got interested in the period because they really liked Anya Seton's Katherine is going to hate me.)

HOWEVER things may work out, in the long run, better for girl!Richard, because a lot of Richard's personal qualities would be deemed more excusable in a woman. But I am not sure how it will come out in the end; I have two halves planned, and I've mostly got the first plotted out but I am not sure how the fallout will...fall out. And that's the stuff that's basically in the play's timeline; the first part only goes up to 1388 or so.

(this fic is occupying pretty much all my non-Hollow Crown brainspace. I've got 10,000 words and SO MUCH MORE TO GO, but email me if you want to read bits, I'm always interested in how it would play to people who haven't heard all my brain vomit about it.)

In the Hogwarts AU Richard and Henry were both Ravenclaws! Which I could totally see, but I think the Richard I write is actually a Gryffindor. Henry I go back and forth on although the same person who wrote that fic made a good case for him as a Hufflepuff in the sense that when he has a posse he is unstoppable. ;)
doreyg
Jul. 4th, 2012 08:19 am (UTC)
Hcgucguuj yaaaaaaay! :DDDD TEENAGE MEDIEVAL LESBIANS! Especially adorable ones. For Anne and Richard ARE adorable no matter where/who they are. And super awkward things that end in lesbians are often fun for everybody around! (It is barely nine in the morning, I'm not sure if my mind is up to sense yet.)

OH GAUNT! XDDD I love him, but you can't deny that he's a right bastard at times. (I wonder, actually, (on a purely theoretical level) if he would've vaguely pushed for a Henry/Richard marriage if Richard had been a girl... Although, even on a theoretical level, I'm not sure if it ever would've happened. Because a Henry/Richard marriage would be a trainwreck and EVERYBODY KNOWS IT! XDDD)

Ooh, yes! And I suppose she'd mainly have other people taking over the running of the country for her (at least for a while) so she'd mainly have to worry about avoiding marriage and babies and so on.

(Igig I will! It sounds awesomely interesting. :DDD And I am always a fan of chatting/babbling/ALL THE FEELINGS about genderswap!)

Awesomeeee. :DDD And I can see Henry as a Hufflepuff, totally! I mean: the whole deposition thing isn't very loyal to Richard, but everything else fits quite well - he's loyal to his immediate family (AKA: dad), very determined, has a posse (as you said) and I'd also VERY hard working. So, yeah, I mainly have him down as a Ravenclaw, but I can see that!
angevin2
Jul. 4th, 2012 07:56 pm (UTC)
Henry is definitely unafraid of toil, yes! And of course the whole point of his character is that he has conflicted loyalties. ;)

Also, the fact that if Richard had been a girl Gaunt would have tried to marry her off to Henry does not go unnoticed in my fic! It's never a very serious thing -- I mean, Gaunt is serious about it, but nobody else wants it to happen because dammit, he is powerful enough as it is, nobody needs him to put his prospective grandson on the throne. (Henry is secretly very disappointed, but he tries not to show it. One of the things that changes in this AU, though, is that while he still feels bad about his crush on girl!Richard, it is something he can wrap his brain around, because of course he has a thing for his pretty and charming cousin. That's normal, i.e. Not Sodomitical.

Plus I wrote a scene where they're doing sword practice together as kids. It's fun. P.S. I didn't make girl!Richard a warrior woman type, she's just doing it because her father insisted she knows about the basics. Not so much to use them, just because she'll be at least nominally in command of people who do.)

ALSO ALSO I forgot to give you my email -- it is strangebrooch at gmail. :D
doreyg
Jul. 6th, 2012 12:12 am (UTC)
Oh, yes, of course! :DDD ...Although now I'm imagining the whole deposition thing happening in a universe with Hogwarts and Richard being all "WELL THIS ISN'T A VERY HUFFLEPUFF THING TO DO, IS IT?" And Henry being all "Oh God I CANNOT EXPLAIN THIS NOW." <<

sgsrg Awesome! :DD Absolutely awesome, yesss (and awwww Henry, I really shouldn't have a thing for your stupid kicked puppy face, but it doesn't appear to be going away any time soon. AND YAY SWORD PRACTICE! :DDDD Because of course the Black Prince would insist upon all the weapons practice no matter what gender his child is (Oddly enough I can iamgine Richard beating, or trying her very best to beat, Henry in such a situation - just on principle.))

:DDD Mine is, imaginatively, DoreyG at gmail!
angevin2
Jul. 6th, 2012 12:41 am (UTC)
And of course Henry would have a whole rationale why his actions are totally in keeping with Hufflepuff's ideals, because loyalty to England outweighs loyalty to any one king!

Also, I have sent you the beginning of the girl!Richard fic. Which includes a sword practice scene. Said scene is heavy on the irony. ;)
doreyg
Jul. 7th, 2012 12:09 am (UTC)
It'd be at least two hours before he realized that Richard does not actually give a damn. XDD

I have got it! :DDD ...And may send you a long, flaily, rambly email in reply. XDD
angevin2
Jul. 7th, 2012 12:27 am (UTC)
omg a rambly flaily email would improve my evening exponentially. It is a million degrees out and I am SO BORED.
doreyg
Jul. 7th, 2012 12:39 am (UTC)
It has been sent! And... May make no sense whatsoever, oops, since it mainly consists of me coming to the slow realization that if I had a time machine I would basically just use it to cuddle EVERYBODY EVER. XDDD (And it is all rainy here! BRITAIN IT IS JULY, WHY DO YOU MAKE NO SENSE?)
( 13 comments — Leave a comment )